To all Atlassian server champions - we want to hear from you

[Julius Zatroch]

Hello Cameron.

I know it's not your decision but you are opening Pandora box now. If Atlassian didn't change own path to "Cloud only" and "Money first", there will come other companies to your market and will take your customers. You have showed what is path to succesfull company (good products, marketplace, community support, cheap starting version, partners). World is different now and even Trump will not stop China software companies to copy and release own products. Did you try ZenTao....?

[Cameron Deatsch]

Julius, thanks for your feedback. In fact, competitive threats are a reason why we made this decision. When we look at the market nearly all the competitors our customers mention are SAAS vendors. We realize that only with our cloud products will we be able to maintain our competitive advantage long term. 

But no, I have not seen Zentao and I'll check it out. Interestingly, Atlassian is growing quite rapidly in China. 

On the "money first" comment, we did release our cloud products for free up to 10 users and also offer a variety of loyalty discounts to our enterprise customers if they choose to move to cloud. 

[Tobias Ravenstein]

@Cameron Deatsch 

nearly all the competitors our customers mention are SAAS vendors

So you're reducing one competetive advantage by leaving the entry-level on-prem market?

[Haddon Fisher]

@Cameron Deatsch, to Tobias' point, I am fairly certain that is not how competitive advantage\threats works.

If all of your competitors are SaaS vendors, then you currently have a competitive advantage by offering something they do not. By eliminating that offering and creating a gap in your offerings, Atlassian has both given up a competitive advantage and creating a competitive threat for any vendor interested.

[Tom Shaffer]

I am fairly certain that is not how competitive advantage\threats works.

Cut Cameron a break here - it was a talking point that their team thought up of but didn't think it through enough. You see a lot of examples of these throughout the responses on the major forum threads discussing this. A lot of these buzzwords/phrases sound great during a brainstorming session but don't quite fit in with this when put into practice.

[Pavel Krivoruchko]

The best thing you could do while keeping the current pricing policy is making Server version opensource and free to use (at "as-is" basis). Atlassian did a great work of supporting newer JVM/Database versions, so even with minimal first-party support it would be a great solution for years to come. Is this path possible?

This is the way many software companies work now, with free basic opensource tier and enterprise-grade paid tier.

Even without plugin marketplace infrastructure, this approach will allow even more use cases for Server (for example, making certifications in restricted industries simpler), while keeping large enterprises coming to Data Center being sure that there are enough professionals in the market to support it.

[Stephen Sifers]

Hello Pavel,

We appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately, we do not plan to open source the code for our server products. However, we will continue to provide the full source code for server software, allowing for in-house customizations and modifications, as we do with any active server license today.

Rest assured, these changes won’t happen overnight. We’re making server support available for three more years to give you time to review our roadmaps, understand your options, and make the best decision for your organization’s requirements. Beyond that, you can still use our server products but bear in mind that they will no longer be supported or maintained.

I’d love to better understand your specific requirements so I can help recommend the best path for you. Can you tell me a little bit more about your needs with regards to a deployment option?

Additionally, we’ve built a number of tools and resources to help you navigate this change so please check them out on our website.

Respectfully,
Stephen Sifers

[Julius Zatroch]

Hi Atlassian, especially Mr. Farquhar and Mr.Mike Cannon-Brookes.....

You have taken jobs from us, small companies around the world. We have helped your Atlassian to grow....
If you still think we will give our customers and our time to your cloud, you are wrong....
We need jobs, we need work and here is first example what will happend:

Announcing iDalko Services for monday.com

And we will remember ATLASSIAN, how "Don’t #@!% the customer" ....  (no comment)

[Alex Janes]

Atlassian Team, any news on the Server Champions group you said you were going to make?

[Mandy Ross]

hi @Alex Janes ! We actually updated the content of this very post with the links to the groups a couple of weeks ago. Please check the original post and you'll see the links to request access!

[a.stucki@solcept.ch]

Closed groups...

[Mandy Ross]

The Reliability and Performance group is open. For the other 3, if you are interested in participating, please request access and you'll get a response within 24 hours. 

[Fabian Arndt]

Hello,


we and our customers are not willing to change to DC for the additional cost.

We and the companys we support have some special in house developed plugins and use some database connected reporting.


Additionally we have highly sensitive data in the system a switch to cloud will never be possble.


So we hope for more favourable pricing with DC in the region of server. Starting with a 10 User licence we use for update Testing.

Else we will have to make plan to migrate to other products.


Cheers


Fabian

[Urs Stäheli]

The exit from the server licenses for Jira / Confluence is a big problem for us. As a company we are too small for the data center and have the target to work WITHOUT the cloud. So we have to think about how we are going to position ourselves in the future. 

[Norbert]

I'm supporting some customers to keep their atlassian ecosystem running :-) Some days ago I already wrote some concerns. And don't wanna repeat the correct arguments I already read here. But just to understand correctly:

1. There won't be bamboo in the cloud (last try ended 01/2017), trying to integrate functionalities in bitbucket for cloud. Only chance to continue w Bamboo ist DC. Right?

2. Data residence of bitbucket is at NTT in two data centers in US, no way for customer to influence this. Right?

3. How shall I convince customers now to move to a platform with essential features announced for 2022 ?

Norbert

[gzgenm]

They don't give a F-word about how we will convince customers. So I'm not convincing nobody from this moment on.

[Jimmy Seddon]

As a hybrid customer, I'm extremely grateful we decided to make the move to Jira Cloud a year ago.  However, I have some reservations about the fact that Bamboo is getting a Data Center version which I don't think was ever likely to be on the roadmap until this announcement.

That all being said, @Cameron Deatsch I really appreciate that Atlassian wants to form a Server Champion group to have an open dialog about the pain points and roadblocks of moving away from the server versions.  I know Atlassian will be swarmed with comments of disappointment and I wanted you to know that I admire the desire to have a two-way conversation about this/

This is definitely going to be a lot to think about over the next year.

[Cameron Deatsch]

Jimmy!!! Nice to hear from you again. Bamboo Data Center was always a hot discussion as the Bamboo R&D team has been itching to take this on for years. This announcement just allowed us to make the call to get it done sooner than later. I believe you're speaking with the Bamboo PM soon and I hope what we are delivering will meet your heavy Bamboo needs. You have my email so feel free to ping me directly if you'd like to discuss further.

Also, I'd greatly appreciate you sharing your experience with Jira Cloud with the community and others on this thread. 

[Scion]

We were also considering buying Bamboo for the local-hosted build server we recently bought, as the building that we need done cannot be done easily or in any timely manner on Bitbucket Pipelines.

The self-hosted runners on bitbucket pipelines (as well as many of the critical features we need) are not going to be available until Q2 2021. 

WIll the pricing for Bamboo data center still be affordable for small to medium-sized businesses that do not need remote runners? Will server customers also get a discount moving to data-center?

Also, with the end of sale coming, you are essentially cramping our growth to no more than 10 active users if we do not move to cloud.

[Cameron Deatsch]

Hi Scion, are you currently running in Bitbucket Cloud? If improvements to Pipelines is what you're waiting for I definitely suggest waiting for that functionality.

However, if you'd like to move to Bamboo we will be supporting Bamboo Server until February 2024 so you have some runway if that is the direction you're heading. We have yet to define our pricing for Bamboo Data Center but it will be in line with our other Data Center products.

[Jimmy Seddon]

@Scion as Bamboo isn't licensed by user but agents, I'm interested to see how the license model is setup.

I have a call with members of the Bamboo team later this week.  Any information I'm allowed to share here I absolutely will to help provide clarity for myself and others!

[Jimmy Seddon]

Also to put the information our there for anyone interested.  Yes our company of 115 users considered moving to Jira Data Center before making the journey into Jira Cloud last year.  I documented that process in a three part series of articles here.

I know no everyone can justify the cost of Data Center, and in fact my management team laughed at me in 2018 when I suggested it.  However, since our entire company uses Jira, we had a network outage on the host that our Jira server was stored for 4 hours.  Having all of our users unable to work cost the business significantly more than the cost of a DC license.  We were justifying the expense based on the "peace of mind" that a highly available environment would avoid that situation in the future.

While at the 2019 Summit, I leaned that Jira Cloud had made significant improvements and it met all of our security policies for us to move there.  I understand that's not possible for everyone, and Data Center just isn't in the budget for some companies, but I thought I'd share a bit about our position and justification.

[Scion]

@Cameron Deatsch We run Bitbucket Server but we moved to server earlier this year after we realized that cloud did not fit our needs. Having us wait half a year for the critical functionality of local-hosted runners (assuming that there will be no delays) is an incredibly difficult thing to ask of us, as we built our build server specifically for Bamboo.

In the starter version of Bamboo we are restricted to only 5 jobs, and we were planning on upgrading soon since this is incredibly restrictive but found that it did meet our needs. However Bamboo was supposed to be a long-term investment, and now long-term investments are not going to be possible with server products.

As for saying it will be in line with other data center products, that doesn't make much sense as there is no current accurate comparison for Bamboo. Bamboo is licensed per remote agent (which we do not yet need any of), not per user.

Also, I have a support ticket talking about some confidential issues which I would very like to have addressed as soon as possible.

[Andy Heinzer]

Hi @Scion 

While Bamboo has been included in the end of life announcement, there does not yet exist a data center version available for that product.  As such we have noted over in the FAQ section of https://www.atlassian.com/migration/journey-to-cloud that the affected products does have the following exceptions currently noted:

Exceptions:

• You will still be able to purchase new licenses for Fisheye and Crucible, which remain in basic maintenance mode. 
• We plan to make Bamboo Data Center available in the near future. As details emerge, we will notify current Bamboo Server customers and continually update this FAQ. Until further notice, you will still be able to purchase new licenses for Bamboo Server.

As such you should still be able to purchase Bamboo server licenses at least up until February of 2021 (or possibly even later depending on the release of the data center edition).

Andy

[Scion]

@Andy Heinzer Thank you for the response. This is all fine for Bamboo in the short term, but our concerns have entirely been about the long term future of our company on the Atlassian platform such as:

• When Bamboo Data Center comes out, will it also be priced based on remote agents and thus be affordable to medium and small businesses who do local builds? Will there be an option to have only 1 remote agent like there is now?
• As I have posted in my other comments in this thread, Atlassian has openly told us that there is no possible path to the cloud for our company now or in the near future. Not for technical reasons, but for reasons entirely up to Atlassian's arbitrary discretion. Are efforts being made to rectify this? Or are you just trying to get us to purchase expensive licenses for products that will be unsupported after 2024, at which point you can leave us in the dust instead of helping us move to the cloud?

Thank you,

Scion

[Scion]

One suggestion I have would be to adopt the approach that Azure pipelines takes with subscriptions. Instead of charging customers lots of money the moment they hit 11 users, if the first 10 users were permanently free and not counted in the licensing requirements, then that would make paying for cloud a lot more affordable for smaller businesses. It would also make scaling up a lot easier for smaller businesses.

This, of course, is separate from the other criticisms I've made that prevent us from reasonably going onto the cloud, but it is a suggestion.

[Alex Janes]

And not a bad one at that. Although I am a huge fan of the $10 license fee for 10 users, that first jump to 11 users is a massive increase. If it could instead be only charging more for each individual use beyond 10, rather than, "Oh you are at 11 now? Well, were gonna increase the price for your first 10 users as well." Well, wait a second, suddenly expanding means paying a ton more for my base business, leaving little for the actual expansions of my business.

So, I definitely agree with this suggestion.

[gzgenm]

Oh, really? Now you're filtering opinions? Okay. 

[Andy Heinzer]

Hi @gzgenm 

Your post was automatically caught in our spam filter, and I just went through and un-moderated it. This FAQ item might help. 

Why was my question marked as "in moderation"?

Our community has an automated spam filter than sometimes catches "real" posts in addition to spam. All our admins and moderators check the quarantine regularly and will release your post as soon as we can.

Thanks for letting me know this happened, your post should be live now. 

Andy

[Alex Janes]

@Andy Heinzer If I were to guess, some of these auto-moderated posts are being filtered because the emotional state and aggressiveness caused by these announcements. That doesn't necessarily excuse all behavior. But it could be why.

Is it possible to update us with why a lot of these posts are getting caught? It seems like there must be a pattern, such as detected profanity or aggressiveness that is catching these posts. I know the FAQ gives some information. But perhaps a little more detail with examples as to what is triggering it may help other users in posting more constructive criticism, and be a little less aggressive in their posts. :)

[gzgenm]

I think this group is the fake. They have to pretend they are open like someone's opinion could change the way they have chosen.

It won't. You can't expect any constructive criticism from those whom you just ****.

[Alex Janes]

@gzgenm That doesn't mean you can't provide constructive criticism here. What would you like to see from Atlassian? They have already confirmed there is no way server is going to be saved. So what else would you like to see then?

Also, please don't derail me trying to get the auto-moderator issues addressed.

[Andy Heinzer]

Hi @Alex Janes 

Our Community site sees a lot of traffic.  This tends to draw in spammers to the site.  While profanity can sometimes trigger these automatic spam detections, it is not a guarantee of being marked as spam.  In my opinion it tends to happen far more often with new accounts to the site AND/OR accounts that have very few posts.  One technique we have seen actual spammers use is to post seemingly benign comments to old threads in order to try to build some reputation or credibility and then go back and edit their original post to include a spam link to some site in order to try to drive traffic to their site or improve SEO (search engine optimization).

In this particular case, the user gzgenm had not posted to Community before this particular thread, and that user edited one of their own posts shortly after creating it (not this post, but the actual post that was marked as spam was edited).  In my experience the automatic filter tends to rank these two factors highly likely as spam.  Of course it was wrong here, and we have moved this post back out of our spam filter.

I hope that helps to answer your question.

Andy

[Alex Janes]

@Andy Heinzer Thank you for that explanation. That explains why we have seen so many posts being moderated lately when it comes to these threads. I imagine a lot of new users who have never posted before are coming out of the woodwork to express their concern with this change.

[gzgenm]

1. Atlassian throughout all these years forced us to migrate our accounts from one system to another and back, merging them, splitting etc, so when it could look like a new one, it's not.

2. I express my own opinion using words from Atlassian's famous statement which declares they "don't **** customers" that's why I can't use my work account with links to my company, colleagues and things, sorry about that.

[gzgenm]

I think many of us just can't afford the new prices anymore. 

LOL, Atlassians want to cease bamboo server as well by the date and they even don't have a good alternative to it in the cloud.

You've just **** up your customers in many ways. It's time to remove that promise, you don't value it anymore. You're robbing us and telling us that it's not what we think it is. That's it. It's obvious for 1st graders right after one calculates all the expenses. 

I used to be with you for like a decade, since IDK JIRA 3.0 mayb.
I was like an ambassador for your product whenever I could, truly lived with them.

Now it's over. I've seen enough here to understand what you're doing, how you're doing and what you really think about all of us.

Think I'll start a migration process from Atlassian Ecosystem ASAP, that would be an investment - in a year perspective I will be helping the customers you ***** up to move away with as less damage to their workflow process as possible. I believe they will be ready to pay a dime for it.

1. Your cloud isn't ready to replace server
2. Your cloud is more expensive
3. You ***** up, starting with the stupid deadline

Go get your money, now it's the only thing you're looking for.

[gzgenm]

I think many of us just can't afford the new prices anymore. 

LOL, Atlassians want to cease bamboo server as well by the date and they even don't have a good alternative to it in the cloud.

You've just f*'ed up your customers in many ways. It's time to remove that promise, you don't value it anymore. You're robbing us and telling us that it's not what we think it is. That's it. It's obvious for 1st graders right after one calculate all the expenses. 

I used to be with you for like a decade, since IDK JIRA 3.0 mayb.
I was like an ambassador for your product whenever I could, truly lived with them.

Now it's over. I've seen enough here to understand what you're doing, how you're doing and what you really think about all of us.

Think I'll start a migration process from Atlassian Ecosystem ASAP, that would be an investment - in a year perspective I will be helping the customers you f*'ed up to move away with as less damage to their workflow process as possible. I believe they will be ready to pay a dime for it.

1. Your cloud isn't ready to replace server
2. Your cloud more expensive
3. You f*'ed up, starting with the stupid deadline

Go get your money, now it's the only thing you're looking for.

[Alex Janes]

Sadly, I think Atlassian did the math from a purely economical standpoint, and a community standpoint, and determined that they can afford to lose what they will lose with this announcement.

If I were to wager a guess, the math goes something like this.

Economically, they see the money to be gained by forcing customers to either data center or cloud. They will get 1 in 10 of us server customers to move over to cloud or data center, and that's all they need to break even.

From a community standpoint, they probably have gained enough product champions for their cloud and data center products, that the losses they will experience in community members contributing to their products will not be enough to kill the community support and mod ecosystem around their product. 

Unfortunately, the math makes sense from a business perspective. It's very hard to argue with if you are a publicly traded company.

Still super awful to treat their longest standing customers this way.

[Metin Savignano]

The economical math is simple. If I look at our app sales, they might not be representive, but the principle should be the same: over 70% of sold licenses are for user tiers below 500, but over 70% of the revenue is for user tiers 500 and up. If I draw the line at user tier 250 because I expect customers to accept an upgrade to user tier 500, it's even 85% of the revenue. 

However, for us, it's a matter of attitude not to neglect smaller customers.

[Andrew Laden]

You keep asking what we would like to see from Atlassian. I think the key item would be a lower price point for the on-prem product. Even if you raise the prices somewhat compared to server, keep the same tiered structures, 10-20-50-100-250-500.

That would give the lower price points that the smaller customers need to continue to use the product and would provide an entry level cost that would be required to attract new customers and would give us reason to believe that atlassian still cares about on-prem.

Failing that, I would rather hear them say that they are sunsetting on-prem completely in 3 years, rather then this unspecified period of time for datacenter. I'd rather just know for sure that I have to get off the atlassian product vs having this "option" that really isn't an option for most people. You want to be a cloud only company, then say you are going to be cloud only, and be done with it. Let us grieve the loss of a good product (as we have done for many other companies and technologies that have gone under) And start to move on. 

This forced transition to datacenter hurts more. Its saying "We like you if you are rich, but otherwise we don't care" Its insulting to the long time community of non-enterprise on-prem customers.

And even then it leave the rich people wondering when they will be cut off. We all know its coming.

[Alex Janes]

@Andrew Laden Great suggestion! I keep asking what people want to see, because this thread has been alot of just poo poo on Atlassian lately. Although one could argue its deserved, I'd like Atlassian to understand what it is we want to see from them, rather than just "Boo Atlassian!"

[gzgenm]

what are you, like an advocate for Atlassian? :)

[Personal attack removed]

[Alex Janes]

@gzgenm ok, then they just wont get feedback other than "We don't like it." and won't change anything, because no one is expressing what it is they want.

I'm an advocate for getting us, the community, a solution that isn't just spend 10x or migrate to another product. It's cheaper for all of us in the long run if we can get reasonable pricing from Atlassian.

But turning on each other because I'm looking for constructive criticism doesn't get us anywhere. That's why I am encouraging people to post their suggested solution. If Atlassian won't ask the question, I will.

[gzgenm]

as I said already, they got all the feedback here and told us they're not going to change nothing.

[Alex Janes]

@gzgenm I share your pessimism in one regard. With the lack of responses from the Atlassian Team, it seems little will be done.

However, here's a bit of optimism for you. That doesn't mean they are not reading these posts. The lack of response COULD mean that they have no good answers, and therefor have to go back to the drawing board and come up with better solutions for us. Those solutions may be super easy and obvious in your and my eyes. But big companies like this take a lot of time to change plans they already made and are already executing.

Admitting defeat is not a profitable move for a publicly traded company. So, rather than do that, they are HOPEFULLY tweaking their plans, based on our massive amount of feedback.

All I can recommend is that you continue to provide more information about how this decision doesn't work for your organization. You've mentioned that price is a factor. I agree, that's been beaten to death on this forum.

But what other factors are preventing your move to the cloud? This is not me advocating the cloud, so much as me trying to continue to prove that Atlassian is wrong, and needs to change their plan. The cloud is not for everyone, and it feels like they really need to get that through their heads. Trust me, this organization will not be moving to the cloud any time soon.

The more specific issues with their plan we can bring up, the more we can influence its future.

[gzgenm]

@Alex Janes , you must be kidding me.
Open hecking docs and take a look yourself

https://support.atlassian.com/jira-cloud-administration/docs/what-are-the-differences-between-jira-cloud-and-jira-server/

no external user managment

no ldap/ad user management

no jelly scripts

no custom workflow

no company corporate domain

and just for u to laugh on: our instance has 5TB data. 
250GB? LOL.

It is what? The future? Without even support of corporate user management?

You have to pay not only to cloud, but to premium version of it plus "atlassian access" which has NO direct support for either LDAP nor AD.

They cease Bamboo server the same date they stop selling Jira! and they have ABSO-hecking-LUTELY nothing to offer as a replacement.

Don't mock me please, it's the worst possible decision they made.
THE WORST. They put money before reason. They are not ready to make such an important step yet, they don't have a class product to sell, but they're selling it anyway. Selling it with triple the old price, which I should tell you wasn't small at all.

I'm not investing a second of my time no more.

[Alex Janes]

@gzgenm I am not mocking you. In fact, I am on your side. I have a lot of concerns about the differences between cloud and server. That is why I am not moving to the cloud.

I'm asking you to provide specific examples of how each of those items affects. If we just say "it's different, therefor its bad" Atlassian will tell us to pound salt and will not help us.

Could you go into more detail as to how each of those items affects your organization?

[gzgenm]

For what reason? You know, it takes a lot of time explaining every other thing. What I get in return? declaration that "cloud is the future"? or that I should pay triple price and have less because Atlassian wants me to?

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is it enough?

We rely almost on every thing server instance can do. And cloud can not.

[Alex Janes]

You know, it takes a lot of time explaining every other thing.

@gzgenm  I understand. But not explaining it leaves Atlassian with all of the power. If we don't explain it to them, then they can come right back and say, "Well you never told us why..."

A lot of people here, including myself, have spent a lot of time explaining in great detail why this decision is bad for us. You are not alone in that regard.

Everyone here (save for Atlassian Team) seems to share your view that this is a bad decision.

We rely almost on every thing server instance can do. And cloud can not.

Can you give specific examples of some things that these limitations prevent you from accomplishing? Unfortunately, Atlassian's response to the numbers you gave about how big your server instances are, would just be "We have enterprise edition for the cloud that can handle your needs." I 100% agree that is a terrible response from them, as it simply ignores the fact that you don't want cloud.

But if we can't succinctly explain our issues in detail, then Atlassian will just keep coming back with the same talking points.

I only keep responding, asking for more, because I've gone through this song and dance for the past few weeks with Atlassian, and I know how they are going to respond to the points you are making. I want them to see why it doesn't work for us. And I am trying to get you to explain it to them.

I am on your side. Please understand that. I am only trying to get you a response from Atlassian that isn't more talking points. But if we as users can't give anything more than, "Because Cloud is missing those features." Yes. But what does that prevent you from doing?

Perhaps I'm not being clear. So allow me to provide an example. 

You mention "no custom workflow". Ok, but how are you using custom workflows that blocks you? For my organization, this point is a deal breaker. The authorization workflow for approving medical procedures has very specific steps configured to make sure that we are following compliance with regulatory requirements. Without custom workflows, I cannot ensure that compliance.

How are you using the features you mention are missing in cloud, and how impactful would it be to your organization? These are the types of things that Atlassian needs to know.

EDIT: I guess I'm missing something. But it looks like custom workflows are available in the cloud. AGAIN, not going cloud. But that specifically does not appear to be a truly missing feature, unless you are counting low code type modifications to Jira itself.

[Monique vdB]

@gzgenm I understand this is a frustrating topic and emotions are running high, but keep in mind that attacking other users or Atlassians personally is against the rules here and may result in your account being suspended or banned. 

I've edited out some comments about both @Alex Janes and the Atlassian team, and would ask that you please review our Rules of Engagement before continuing to participate in this conversation.

Thank you! 

[Alex Janes]

@Monique vdB Although I do appreciate you taking action here, I would like to point out one thing. Please feel free to remove this quote if you feel my posting it again violates the Rules of Engagement.

They don't need you. Neither do we

Although this statement is rude, and a little harsh, I think it's safe to say that it succinctly summarizes how everyone feels right now. It feels like Atlassian has said this to us through their non-responses, and empty talking points. We, as a community don't feel engaged with, when the response is to just restate the same talking points, but in a different way.

The problem I am seeing here is...

• There's not enough acknowledgement of the community's concerns
• There is no demonstration of empathy from the Atlassian Team, as to how our problems could even be seen as real challenges. Instead just, more talking points telling us, we're wrong, it's fine. (Maybe it doesn't say that word for word. But that's how the customer FEELS when you do this.)
• There is not enough reassurance that Atlassian is doing something about our concerns.

I am happy to give more feedback on this if you feel it is necessary. But I think it's safe to say that the collective mood of the community posting in this thread, is summed up with the ^ above ^ quote...

[Monique vdB]

@Alex Janes it's possible I misread that quote! I thought "you" in that sentence was referring to you, Alex, and read it as a personal attack. It was also reported to the moderators in that light.

I apologize if I misread it. If it was meant as a more general comment about how users are feeling, it would not go against the rules. It's absolutely fair to raise the concerns about the general community mood and I do appreciate your taking the time to articulate it. 

I can tell you from the inside that people at Atlassian truly do care and do empathize, but if it doesn't feel like it from the outside, that's really good for us to know. I'm glad you've signed up for the feedback group, and hope that will be a constructive channel to raise feedback and, importantly, feel your concerns are heard. 

Let me know if there's anything else I can do. 

[Alex Janes]

@Monique vdB  It was a personal attack in the context of the original post. But I didn't react to it, because it's hard to blame him. It's a tense time for Atlassian Champions. And without more communication from the Atlassian Team, I'm afraid this mood will continue.

The quote was just so, apt, that it was very useful in explaining my point.

[Mehran Moss]

And similar situation with our company, was trying to spend >$10k on Jira/Conf Server to increase number of users to 50, but I guess these are small amount for Atlassian. 

[a.stucki@solcept.ch]

@Monique vdBIMHO this is not mainly an issue of managing emotions. There are several reasons (not just less $$$) that have driven the decisions of many of us to go with server. Starting with air-gapped systems, Privacy Shield legislation, regulated industries, customer requests to things that do not work on your SaaS offering. As they are/ were killer criteria in the selection process, this process has to be redone with all possible offerings...

BTW: It cannot be the task of us/ the community to collect those features for Atlassian marketing. And especially not after the decision is taken (I once learned that you collect facts first, then make decisions, but this was before the post-factual world).

[Thomas Dörfler]

@Monique vdB"I'm glad you've signed up for the feedback group, and hope that will be a constructive channel to raise feedback and, importantly, feel your concerns are heard."

Aehm... This sound a little bit like lying on a sofa of my psychoanalyst... The Atlassian team has now heard at least 4 weeks about our concerns. Is it too much expectation to get feedback on our concerns?

What are you (=Atlassian) actually gonna do with our concerns? Any chance you (Atlassian) is going to revise it's decisions? Or publish a plan to react on our concerns?

And:

When are you (=Atlassian) actually gonna do something?

We won't wait on the sofa for long!

[Monique vdB]

@Thomas Dörfler Cameron did post an update with feedback on the top concerns raised. In case you didn't see it, the post is here. 

[Thomas Dörfler]

@Monique vdB: thank you for your direct reply and thank you for pointing me to the post.

Nevertheless I am not convinced cloud is better for us than our private server.

Why?

On private server, we could easily make sure that only company members can access our Jira instance and its data:

- set it on a company owned server

- protect it with proper firewall and safety measures

-> that's it (more or less).

What is on cloud (IMHO):

- Pro: Atlassian will encrypt and protect data and store it in Europe, that's fine (and nothing more than what we do on our server)

- Con: For each App supplier, the data seems to move to a different country.

- Con: The list of suppliers will change over time. Currently there is non in china (but in US). Will this change over time? If Atlassian decides so, it will.

- Con: Each country involved may use its local law to enforce access to our data (am I right on this?)

- Con: Cloud solution is on the move, so I have to monitor and recheck whenever the cloud's legal constellation changes

- Con: I have a time of 45 days to object to legal changes. When I object, I am out. Services are inaccessible for me

So: what is the gain for me and my company? And what is the loss?

[Mehran Moss]

I agree, and surely Atlassian have thought of all these pros and cons, Cloud is not the choice for Server users! They have to be able to move Server users to Datacenter at least, even as low as 25 users. 

[Thomas Dörfler]

@Monique vdB: one issue  I just received today: For a project we are going to receive information under an NDA from our customer. We may want to apply part of that information to our Jira instance. If the information gets disclosed to others, we will be liable for the (unlimited) damage the disclosure creates.

So: if we trust this piece of information to a cloud based Jira instance and, out of some reason it gets disclosed (e.g. through a breach of Atlassian's or Amazon's or an App provider's security measures): Will Atlassian compensate our customer for the financial damage?

Or do we simply have to trust?

[gzgenm]

Atlassian will say "Sorry" and ask you to pay a new bill

[Mike]

I posted a long answer and edited it. Now it is gone???

[Patricia Francezi]

@Monique vdB check @Mike answer in the spam.  I have received by email and its content is not ......

[Stephen Sifers]

Hello Mike,

Our spam filter caught your message and has since been released. Thanks for letting us know, your post should be available now.

Respectfully,

Stephen Sifers

[silverb]

My post is instantly deleted after posted.

Is this the way you are hearing from us?

https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Confluence-discussions/Please-take-your-decision-back-about-dropping-server-version/td-p/1508974

[Monique vdB]

@silverb your post was automatically caught in our spam filter, and I just went through and un-moderated it. This FAQ item might help. 

Why was my question marked as "in moderation"?

Our community has an automated spam filter than sometimes catches "real" posts in addition to spam. All our admins and moderators check the quarantine regularly and will release your post as soon as we can.

Thanks for letting me know this happened, your post should be live now. 

[ITMAGE]

My post also seems to have vanished.

[Barry Millar]

For those still trusting Atlassian to do the right thing and considering absorbing the price hike and "moving" from Server to Data Center, then consider Atlassian's own web page on "Self-managed" pricing:

From 31 January 2020:

With Jira Software Server and Jira Software Data Center, you host Jira Software on your own hardware and you're able to customize your setup however you'd like. This is generally the best option for teams who want to manage all the details of the setup and don't mind the additional complexity of hosting themselves.

And now the text has changed to:

Our Data Center products enable you the flexibility to deploy on an infrastructure of your choice. It’s best for those who have unique or complex operating requirements or need to scale beyond our current cloud user tiers. You’ll have complete control over data management, security and compliance, when you upgrade, and how you manage uptime and performance. We recommend Data Center for those who have stricter requirements and can’t move to cloud just yet.

Oddly, this statement shows that Atlassian does recognise the multitude of reasons why customers aren't / can't use Cloud. And yet they still think that this is only an interim position before migrating to Cloud.

This whole move only works for Atlassian in the long run if Cloud is their only offering and there is no other codebase.

[Tom Shaffer]

This whole move only works for Atlassian in the long run if Cloud is their only offering and there is no other codebase.

And when they make the announcement that they'll go cloud-only in 202x, they'll pretend like everyone didn't already see it was going to happen.

One of our teams is on DC and I'm working with them to move away from Atlassian altogether since we see the writing very clearly on the wall. Can't afford Atlassian to $%&# us over again at the whim of the shareholder.

[川崎 善智]

サーバー製品の愛好者には、日本人もいることを忘れないでください。

クラウドへの強制移行は良くないと思います。同じ金額で同じサービスを受けられないことが理由です。

クラウドへの移行は決定事項かと思いますが、再度検討して頂くと助かります。

[Wesley Gama]

Recently I found a incident after which Atlassian temporary stops the multiple services. Refer below link for more details.

https://developer.status.atlassian.com/incidents/jg83t3n3cw5q

The respective services are not available from 15th March 2021. If Atlassian fails to protect his own data then how can we expect that they will protect our data after moving to cloud.

After this incident I am not going to trust the Atlassian Cloud service anymore.

Well played Atlassian.

[Metin Savignano]

While I agree that a great level of trust is required for the cloud solutions, I also believe that your conclusion is too harsh. Mistakes can always happen, it is unrealistic to expect that nothing ever should go wrong. The same rule applies to self-hosted solutions, btw.  

If mistakes can always happen, what we should expect is

• early recognition of failures 
• transparent communication
• fast reaction to resolve
• measures to avoid that the same incident happens again

I think Atlassian did well in most of these expectations, except probably in the first, because it obviously took them three days to react to the first report. Something they must address after they have dealt with the current situation. 

[Thomas Dörfler]

Metin, the only thing we can be sure about software is that it will contain bugs. Mistakes happen.

But I assume that server users all have thought about securing their Jira instance according to their individual security requirements. They may allow direct access via internet, trusting Jiras user authentication. They may restrict access to company local users (via Firewall/VPN), or even further down.

AFAIK the cloud based solution must be a "one size fits all". Atlassian determines the level of security available. If it fits, ok. If it doesn't fit, well, ok and bye.

One problem will be: What is the level of security Atlassian really offers? And will it still be there with the next update?

[Wesley Gama]

@Metin Savignano

I totally agree with you. We are all human and make mistakes at some point in our lives.

But such a mistakes impact our business or most important data loss. The thing which we can not compromised.

The majority of our customers are small companies for whom data is important.

That is why we prefer on-premise and prefer to monitor our own security rather than relying on Atlassian for this.

We don't have any problem that Atlassian is promoting Cloud. They are preparing to drop the on-premise version, which is a concern for us.